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Hunting / Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Last post by Hidayat on Today at 09:56:37 PM »
I think Deer is easiest to shot compared to rabbit,deer got big kill zone area.you don't  need precision gun,just accurate enough to make grouping size of Dissert plate,some hunter said even size of A4 paper.
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Hunting / Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Last post by Dvlnme on Today at 08:13:29 AM »
to be honest Hugh i very rarely use even my rimfire firearms these days and havnt used any of my hi power
 hunting rifles for several years now,got rid many of my firearms including all my shotguns and handguns
 some years ago,simply coz i never used them,my days of going overseas to hunt are long gone now,i can
 do pretty much every thing i need and want to do for hunting and shooting very well with my airguns today
 and as you say the ammo is cheaper than firearms,its never been legal to hunt with handguns using
 firearms in this country any way,thats why i love my pcp pistols and for all intents and purposes i can
 legally and effectively hunt what i want to hunt very well with the air pistols any way,unlike Hidayat i have
 no further interest in hunting larger game with either pcp rifles or pistols,i am a serial rabbit hunter and
 have been since was a kid growing up in rural nz and living where i do there are plenty of rabbits and other
 small game to hunt with my airguns,am allmost 70 old now mate,the hills and bush just hard on my old
 battered body these days any way,but fortunatly they invented quad bikes just for old buggas like me to
 get around on eh!!tho i have rifle rack on the quad,i find the handguns lot easier to carry and used these
 days,but not as easy to shoot accuratly as a rifle,they certainly put the challenge back into small game
 hunting as i have to get lot closer even with a 30fpe handgun than i need for a rifle to clean shot a 30fpe
 pcp handgun certainly got plenty power out to 50/60 yards i just no longer have the pistol shooting skills
 i used to have to be able to do so lol,so try keep my pistol hunting out to around 25/30yds at max these
 days the result of getting old and dodery mate,i just hope the arms act review dosnt come down on my
 pcp handguns and take my ablity to use them as i now away from me for purely political reasons but i
 fear that may end up being the case,as we seem to be as a society today afflicted with a growing number
 of idiots and criminals who use airguns as weapons,which of course does effect how our police view all
 airguns today,so am not expecting any thing good to come out of this review regarding airguns in
 general and particually the pistols.
 cheers mike
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Hunting / Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Last post by Novagun on February 21, 2019, 09:17:17 PM »
So the pistol has a good kick to it but manageable.

The dissertation on projectiles was interesting. Not many of us will ever shoot round ball or even very high velocity bullets. I see there are trade offs all the time as to how they do their job and what you want the job to be.

Very high velocity rifle shots must cost a lot per cartridge compared to say something like a 30-30 or even a 308. 308 is very common so probably cheap. 30-30 not so common so not so cheap. Then there is the barrel. Lot of very hot gas and very fast copper scouring out the bore of a high velocity rifle. Whereas a .22 LR or a smooth bore round ball would probably go for ever.

Then there is the overall cost. $22,00 for 500 pellets can't be beaten.  A springer is quiet and you can shoot it in the back yard in town if you observe all the precautions. Good for plinking and the occsssional rabbit if you get the opportunity.

Hooray for Hatsan. ( Even better with a Weihrauch.) 
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Hunting / Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Last post by Hidayat on February 21, 2019, 06:41:34 PM »
Cheers mike for that awesome information,that stag got double lung holes,the 143gr ball fly at 700fps stopped by stag shoulder blade.

For Novagun the recoil this pistol similar to 9mm handgun some people said.
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Hunting / Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Last post by Dvlnme on February 21, 2019, 11:23:05 AM »
i have brought up the subject of foot pounds of energy and how many seem to believe it is a true indictation
 of a guns power,when in fact it very little to do with how any gun or projectile actually works on meat and
 bone in a hunting situation,in fact FPE has no relevence to how any combination of velocity and projectile
 weight performs at all, except on a steel plate,FPE is the amount of energy it takes to move that steel
 plate a known measured distance realitive to the known weight of that plate hanging on a ballistic
 pendulum,this was an early form of chronograph,as once the amount of energy required to doso was known
 the velocity of the projectile could then be calculated,this is all done today by electronic chronos,as FPE only
 takes into account projectile weight and velocity,but dosnt take into account bore size the material the projectile is made off and how that projectile will perform on contact with flesh and bone the amount of energy it takes to move a steel plate on a pendulum is totally irrellevent,so putting this fact into its true
 context means that lets say in 30 cal a 60gr round ball/60 lead bullet and 60 pellet at the same 650 fps
 all have the same 56 fpe but each projectile will behave and perform on soft target very differently,the
 fragile pellet will proberly deform a little proberly not exit the target and dump more of its 56 fpe into the
 target then the bullet or ball both of which will proberly pass clean thru the target and expend that 56 fpe on the ground behind the target,ballistically the bullet on paper will be the best projectile but the pellet
 and will hold its velocity better than either ball or pellet the pellet due to its shape will lose velocity the
 fastest,comparing a 22 fpe 177 and 22fpe 22 rifles the 177 firing a 10.34gr pellet the 22 firing a 16gr
 pellet,both are equal on paper the 177 will likely shoot much flatter due having the higher velocity than the 22,but the 22 will be the better performer for hunting due to its larger diameter and heavier pellet,i
 know from my own experience those little 177 110.34gr pellets will out penertrate the larger 22 pellets
 and wastes much of its energy on ground behind the target,while the larger 22 pellet will rarely exit the
 target dumping all or most its 22fpe into the target and making bigger hole and causing more damage,
 therefore the 22 is the better choice for hunting yet both on paper are equal in fpe but one is more effective than the other,tho both will do the job,my point is that its not the amount of fpe on paper that really matters it really all comes done to how any projectile behaves on target and how much of that energy it can then dump into the target and how much traumatic damage it then does to that target as how effective it will be for hunting,the other side of this is that a rather small caliber very hi velocity
 projectile can cause a lot of damage allso due to the hydro scopic damage caused by the hi velocity
 projectle passing often completely thru the target or by tumbling and deformind inside the target,this is
 the concept behind modern militery cartridges,the intention is to cause devastating but not neccessily
 fatal wounds which is very different to hunting etc.it really all comes down to terminal ballistics once a
 projectile has entered the target as how effective it will be or what those effects will be,for hunting of any
 type the goal is to have the projectile to if possible remain in the target and dump all its energy into the
 target causing as much trauma as possible to totally disable the target and kill as fast as possible .
 it dosnt matter if the target is a rat or a deer this is the result that should be wanted.
 cheers mike
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Hunting / Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Last post by Novagun on February 20, 2019, 09:57:14 AM »
Thank you for that information.
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For Sale, Wanted, Spotted / Daystate Air Ranger, 22, 40fp
« Last post by Technohedge on February 19, 2019, 10:12:19 PM »
Lovely rifle, hardly had any use since Ive had it (i shoot .308 mostly so this gets left behind a lot). Silencer included, very quiet with this on.

Included is a fairly new 300 Bar fill tank and a fill whip. (this was 600 bucks when i was lucky enough to find one)

2700, PM if interested

Auckland area
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Hunting / Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Last post by Dvlnme on February 19, 2019, 09:00:33 AM »
round balls should allways give a predicable trajectory if velocity is constant from shot to shot the same as
 any other type projectile does,being lighter that a normal bullet in same caliber they give higher velocitys
 so tend to shoot flatter ,but lose velocity faster than a heavier bullet due to their poor ballistic shape etc,
 so are better at shorter distances tho dont produce as much energy on target as the heavier bullets so are
 not as effective as bullets.thats the bassic jist of it but there little more to it than that,
 wind has bigger effect on low velocity round balls than doses on bullets allso eg! 180gr round ball at 2000
 fps out muzzle loader is a very diffent thing to 180gr round ball at 650fps out of a pcp pistol,putting that
 into true context a 455 webley cartridge drives a 260 gr round nosed lead bullet at 650fps and is one the
 lowest powered service cartridges ever used,i wouldnt even consider using a 455 revolver to hunt deer or
 shot one unless i was standing on it,the 45 cal pcp pistol used with 180gr lead ball isnt even close to being
 in same power class as the 455 webely so there would be a certain amount of luck involved in killing a
 deer with either that has to be taken into account here,and lot of skill needed to do so allso and the credit
 for that skill has to go to the shooter for sure,fact is i and others i know have shoot several deer with 22
 rinfires over the years at close range ,but dosnt make the 22 rimfire as suitable choice to hunting deer
 with eh!!there was at lest one african elephant that was killed with one shot in brain fron above with a
 22 rimfire revolver many years ago by two scientists the elephant had force to climb a tree and was
 proceeding to demolish the tree,this is a verifiable incident that did take place,but no one in their right
 mind would go hunting elephants with a 22 rimfire handgun eh!!and expect to survive either,it all comes
 down to perfect bullet placement and the balls n skill of the man behind the gun ,its really all bout fully
 understanding you gun and your capablitys in using it.in days gone by and forgotten by most now guns
 were no where near as accurate or powerfull as those today and did the job perfectly well for those using
 them,hunting with big bore pcp airguns today is very simialler to hunting with black powder guns in the
 17/1800s,they are far more efective than they may seem on paper.
 cheers mike
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For Sale, Wanted, Spotted / Crosman PRO 77
« Last post by Mintie on February 18, 2019, 05:18:09 PM »
I have a Crosman PRO77 up for sale. This is a co2 powered, Blowback, Semi Auto .177 Steel BB pistol which would make a great training rig for shooting in the garage. The slide jumps back quite realistically, it has all the controls in realistic places and it holds the slide back after the last shot. The body is plastic but the trigger and slide are metal. I believe there are groups doing IPSC style comps with pistols like these now too.

I was going to list on trademe for $200 but happy to sell to any of our members for $150 and I will throw in a pack of BBs. Cool pistol with some sweet features, you cant buy pistols like this in shops here anymore thanks to a new permit process the police have put in place where they basically decline all permits.

There is a rail on the bottom but the last owner butchered it up a bit so it probably wants to be ground off and a new section of alloy rail mounted there. Seals are all good and it functions well, has just been cleaned and lubed.

Located in Hawkes Bay, Could deliver between HB and Wellington this week if you are quick.
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For Sale, Wanted, Spotted / Weihrauch hw40 or hw45
« Last post by AJT on February 18, 2019, 11:24:00 AM »
Hey,

Anyone got one floating about that they'd be happy moving on for $500-650?

Cheers,
AJ
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