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Author Topic: Legal action.  (Read 708 times)

Online Novagun

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Legal action.
« on: July 21, 2018, 08:26:35 PM »
I see in the DomPost that Digit is taking the Police to court over them declining his licence to import automatic rifles and associated bits and pieces. Don't hold your breath because that might take a while to come to anything.

The first letter in the opinion column was published this morning under the heading "Why are these rifles needed."  It may be just the one or more might follow.

I don't have a strong view either way but I am sure the Police are apprehensive of another Aramoana or the lesser incidents that have occured recently. The trouble is that a licenced firearms owner of recent times has been prepared to subvert the law for his own profit and to hell with the consequences.

It seems to me that the new procedure for obtaining a licence is going to be difficult for people who need or use firearms- hunters in the Urawera who live miles from anywhere and supplement the larder with hunting.

Even with a revamped licence system will not stop evil or stupid accidents.

Whatever the Police are doing, I am sure they have the best of intentions.

Offline FLUB

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2018, 11:44:37 PM »
Automatic or semi-automatic? Big difference and I can't find the article online to read.

Offline Akzle

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2018, 05:58:19 PM »
Whatever the Police are doing, I am sure they have the best of intentions.

well. that's good of you. I'm sure they appreciate that.
i sure as shit don't.

i have a suspicion that the new import regs ban anyone from importing "common parts which are available domestically", but without being told the details, and having no interest in doing the research, i couldn't really tell ya.

Online Dvlnme

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2018, 07:17:43 AM »
agree with akzle as i often do on these issuses,this could end up being another bloody mess like the msa
 pistol grip issuse,so will meander thru the courts possibly for years as well,and just like the msa mess
 if police lose they will go crying to our new labour government to get a law change the police want/labour
 governments dont have good record when comes to being sensible bout gun laws,so its bound go tits up
 for gun owners once again.
 cheers mike

Online Novagun

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2018, 09:07:49 AM »
Akzle and I and probably Divinme have different views on the Police. No problem with that. Views are usually based on experience but we would be in a sorry state without them despite their failings.

The problem is that Police take their measure of success from opinion polls and I suspect a lot of those polled have not had direct contact or little experience with doing or receiving the Police job.  There is an underground wave of disengagement of the public from the police; lack of confidence with the new wave political correctness and the Police actually doing their job. I hear ridicule from rank and file policemen, at least the one I know, about the inept managers dreaming up policy. Maybe academics or system planners who have never had to perform at Police public interface. What looks good on paper may not take into account the variables of human behaviour. They say a battle plan is good until the first shot is fired.

Laws never have and never will stop criminal behavior. They just provide a channel for dealing with the aftermath. Just look at how effective the drug laws and burglary laws and company fraud laws are.

The things I have seen going on at traffic accidents make me wonder at the way they measure performance. Results for manhour expenditure.

I hear that London has a greater death rate per 1000 or 100,000 than New York.  They do it in London with knives rather than handguns.

What a lot of waffle but I just needed to practice my two finger typing. Pretty good eh Divinme.

Online Novagun

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2018, 09:19:29 AM »
Yes Flub I got that wrong, I should have said Semi automatic rifles. AR15s and the like; but in my defence they automatically reload.

Online Dvlnme

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2018, 12:13:46 PM »
yeah mate,you n i should go into commercally making waffles eh!!i got several good friends in police,they
 pretty much telling me same thing bout police senior managment.i had my issuses over the years with
 some cops,but got nothing but good say bout my local small town n country cops,they have been
 absolutly awesume to sharon n i ,were there for us n suported us when we needed them and had no one
 else there for us,my beef not with the cops on beat,but management which is politically motivated n
 damned near disfuntional and have been for many years. there is very definatly an antigun agenda with
 some in national head quarters that in some cases slowly filtering down the ranks for sure.
 dont want to get into that,got other more important things to worry bout,than things i cant change eh!!
 cheers mike

Offline Akzle

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2018, 04:34:21 PM »
I'm on my soapbox. and whiskey. You're welcome (possibly advised) to scroll past.
Views are usually based on experience but we would be in a sorry state without them despite their failings.
this is where I disagree. I don't subscribe to any kind of nanny-ing. and I believe as grown ass adults, we should be able to resolve our own issues.
Yes, this sometimes breaks down - but we've been under a system that encourages it (opposition - two parties, right and wrong, dualism, adversarial) rather than one that encourages (or FORCES) people to be for the greater good.

and here's why:
Quote
Laws never have and never will stop criminal behavior.

legislature only affects the law abiding.
at this point, I'd like to congratulate Drugs, for year-on-year winning the War-against-Drugs.
-ONE example of top-down, rather than bottom-up rule-making.
The politicos are SUPPOSED to work FOR the people - not dictate to them. (Ciggarettes, speeding, drugs, seatbelts, trading food, barter etc)

Quote
The problem is that Police take their measure of success from opinion polls and I suspect a lot of those polled have not had direct contact or little experience with doing or receiving the Police job. 
I don't know that the police take any measure of success. They are tasked with a job (POLICy Enforcement) from their employer (the crown)... and they do it. It's not like there's ever any repercussions for the old-boys club.

Quote
There is an underground wave of disengagement of the public from the police; lack of confidence with the new wave political correctness and the Police actually doing their job.
It's not so underground. One of the most enlightening comments I've heard came from a pensioner-veteran: "This isn't what we went to war for"
Public confidence has been on a steady decline for a long time. In my circles, this has plateaued in the last couple of years, but is still low.

Quote
They just provide a channel for dealing with the aftermath. Just look at how effective the drug laws and burglary laws and company fraud laws are.
just left this here because it's relevant.

Quote
The things I have seen going on at traffic accidents make me wonder at the way they measure performance. Results for manhour expenditure.
again. they don't measure "results"
70 odd percent of the police budget comes from land transport (a hangover from when the MOT merged with the constabulary) - and they need to justify the budget, or it will be cut, next funding season. This is the basis of speeding infringements etc. Speeding is an easy target.
Personally, I think they should be nailing drunk drivers. 0 tolerance. Fail a screening test - off the road, car crushed, license removed. Instead I see in the paper 9-times recidevist drunk drivers getting "community service".


I don't look to the government for regulation, arbitration, nor advice. If I do no man any harm, I should be allowed to live my life as I see fit, without interference.

/soapbox


Offline Akzle

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2018, 04:43:41 PM »
As a point of reference, I haven't had dealings with the police in several years. When I was more involved with them, I'd rank it about 60% who were in the job to do good, 40% cock-wavers, school bully types.

But even if they go into it with the best intentions (safer communities together) they're bound by a set of rules and protocols which limits their effectiveness.

The other aspect of policing, is that they're tasked with finding and dealing with the shitty parts of society - daily dealing with fatalities, abuse, dickheads.
And even if they do their job well, the court system can fuck them, and throw it out. Some dropkick with a community lawyer will get off burglary on a technicality or as a "first offence" (yeah right - more like the first time he got caught)
The only winners in that system are judges and lawyers. Whom I rate as lower than used-car salesmen or dog-shit.

I'm not unsympathetic to the good cops. Just believe they don't need to exist as an institution, and the bad ones really fuck everyone's day up.

Offline Wingman

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2018, 05:35:25 PM »
Whatever the Police are doing, I am sure they have the best of intentions.

Say what? That is something only a policeman would say.

Akzle you nailed it.

Whoever appeals to the law against his fellow man is either a fool or a coward.
Whoever cannot take care of them selves without that law is both. Randy Blythe

"They are tasked with a job (POLICY Enforcement) from their employer (the crown)"

It is these policy makers from the EU etc that NZ police and government are getting the pressure from to disarm the public.
From my personal dealings and observations, those 60% in the job to "do good" ( or the ones with the brains to observe) leave the force within a few years from either seeing they fight losing battle due to at best, a pathetic justice system or they see the police force for what it is, a limited liability company run like a gang.

No amount of change to gun laws will ever change the fact the criminals dont care about the laws to begin with and will always have guns. Just take a look at the UK and Australia as a model.. disarm the law abiding and now only the criminals have guns.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 05:55:43 PM by Wingman »

Online Novagun

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2018, 01:06:46 PM »
Another letter in the DomPost. This time a supportive one regarding semi automatics. The telling comment talks about figures from Alpers and Walters that claim that NZ has the third highest rate of gun ownership in the world and is the second most peaceful nation.
The deaths reported to have been by gun shot in NZ are very low. Some are just from accident or poor judgement and some through evil intent but overall much lower than deaths by car or deaths by cigarettes.
Why not ban cars and trucks and cigarettes?
Genters target of no road deaths by 2020 just will not happen.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 01:09:04 PM by Novagun »

Online Dvlnme

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2018, 06:07:14 PM »
just like a smoke free/prediter free nz never guna happen either,dont know where these idiots keep their
 brains,but its obviously not in their heads.
 cheers mike

Offline Akzle

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2018, 07:30:28 PM »

Offline Wingman

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2018, 10:21:58 AM »


Offline Vault

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Re: Legal action.
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2018, 01:47:14 AM »
Police = revenue gathering policy enforcement officers for corporation of new zealand police.

More commonly known for

gang rape of Liouse Nichols,
murder of Verity Mclean, attempted murder of her partner
Killing a courie4 driver without consequence
Unlawfully spotlighting on DOC land around central otago AFTER being formally tresspassed fro  EVERY private farm without consequence
Drug dealing multiple times by multiple officers
Unlawfully accessing computers for the head hunters
Kidnapping a teenager and forcing him to leave nz for auztralia without consequences
Unlawfully chasing children in vehicles causing their deaths due to breaking their own protocauls without consequences
Unlawfully detaining lots of nz citizens
Point Bushmaster AR15 firearms at CHILDREN during UNLAWFUL raids in Ruatoki Te Ureweras after setting up Unlawful road blocks
Unlawful road block in auckland then unlawfully taking citisens photographs without consent for driving on the same rd as a Hells Angel 50th anniversary celebration
Muder of Steven Bellingham via police pistol that was unlawfully tsken from police station
Murder of Steve Wallace who broke shop windows with a golf club

By 2015 nz police had shot and killed 29 people, many were unrelated to any crime

In the last 10 years nz police have killed more people than in the previous 40 years.
Theyve killed more people that UK police who have 13 times our population

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2017/11/under-fire/

Nz police are a corporate armed gang of thugs, i teach my children to beware of them.

If any nz police officer ever hurts or causes the death of my children, i will be the last thing they ever see.


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