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Author Topic: pcp airguns as weapons of war  (Read 211 times)

Offline Dvlnme

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pcp airguns as weapons of war
« on: December 13, 2018, 07:51:52 AM »
Been bit quiet here lately so time for some thing nit different,As some maybe aware the first recorded use of
 an army using large numbers of pcp airguns was by the Austrian army against the French in early 1800s I
 believe, the Austrians had regements armed with 44 caliber 10 shot repeating pcp rifles and were the only
 army known to doso,back then the flintlock smooth bore musket was standard issuse to most armys,the
 problem with black powder muskets and canons was they didnt like wet weather and didnt work too well
 in the rain,so was common to call off battles until rain stopped,they allso emitted large clouds of smoke
 that very soon totally obscured the battle field,making it pretty much impossible foe any one to see what
 was going on,pcp airguns functioned perfectly fine in any weather didnt emit large clouds of smoke,didnt
 make lot noise and were bout as powerful as a musket,didnt foul the barrels with filthy burnt powder
 residue and could be had with rifled barrels as repeating mechanisms as well,The Austrian rifled pcp
 10 shot repeating rifles were very capable of accuratly killing men out to 200 meters,a musket couldnt
 do that at 50 meters with aimed shot,they allso didnt leave clouds of smoke to give away the shooters
 position,in their day these Austrian pcp rifles were the state of the art in military shoulder fired weapons
 Tho expenisive to make they didnt require large expensive stock piles of expolisive and dangerous gun
 powder either to be kept on hand so were lot cheaper to keep supplied with ammo.
 The Austrians decimated the French general officers from 200 meters and futher away allmost costing the
 french the battle which french eventually won on sheer numbers of soldiers on the field and superiour
 canon fire.airguns were banned by the French in Austria and I believe are still banned today.
 This is all just old history,but what many possibly dont know is the US special forces used modern US
 made high powered 45 caliber pcp hunting rifles in the second Iraq war as short range sniper rifles
 simply because of their low noise signiture and no muzzle flash to give the snipers position way,they
 may still be using them today but havnt been able to comfirm that,the US rifles were made specificaly
 for US special forces by a very well known builder of big bore pcp rifles in the US.I have no further
 information on exactly the type of rifle used,but assume it was a suppressed rifle.
 But would imagine they wouldve been silent dead to those they were used against and those around
 them.
 just bit interesting not well known history about pcp airguns in warfare.
 cheers mike

Offline Novagun

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Re: pcp airguns as weapons of war
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2018, 09:05:57 AM »
Mike I think the Austrians were using pcps well before the 1800s. I read somewhere if a pcp rifleman was caught he was executed on the spot.  I think pcps predate springers and definitely CO2.
I was in Scotland a few years ago, at Blair Athol Castle. In the armoury was a pcp with a barrel about five feet long. It had a screw on bulb mounted under the forestock near the trigger. The barrel was not very straight, but that may have been damage over the centuries. I can't remember how old it was but very. Photos were prohibited and they didn't have a post card of it. There was a note with the gun saying it was experimental and didn't work very well.

Considering the Scots were responsible for major engineering projects that we enjoy today, I wonder if they were involved in the development of old pcps in general.


There was also a rack of 20 brand new muskets, never been fired. They were Brown Besses. The laird had them made to ship to /America for the war of independance but he thought he might annoy the king of England too much so they sat in the armoury.

The Blair Athol Castle is the only place that maintains a private army. Probably in the whole world. I think they parade once a year for the pay parade. Nice spectacle with the marching and pipes and the artillery pieces (muzzle loading canons) on display.

Makes sense for modern armies to have big bore pcps in their arsenal. I wonder what powerhouse guns they have that we don't know about.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 09:09:47 AM by Novagun »

Offline Dvlnme

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Re: pcp airguns as weapons of war
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2018, 10:45:15 AM »
pcp airguns definately predate other types of airguns,they go back to the time the flintlock first came out
 in early 15/1600s,many were made in early days by clockmakers as they were the only ones with skills
 needed to make valves and complicated mechanisms,pcp guns were very expensive to make so were the
 hunting guns of choice for many kings and wealthy people,they were just as powerful as the firearms of
 the day,and worked far more reliably than early flintlock firearms and were not affected by wet weather
 as the firearms were,so pcp airguns have a long and interesting history.There some famillies in UK and
 Scotland who are still useing pcp hunting rifles to this day made hundreds of years ago as rite of
 passage for their young men into hunting,who have shoot a stag with the airgun before they are allowed to
 hunt with modern firearms,Russian wolf hunters have long used pcp airguns for hunting wolves and many
 still do today with airguns often hundreds years old allso,some early american explores took pcp airguns
 as well as firearms on their travels thru the wildness,simplily coz didnt need to take large supplies of
 gunpowder,that ended up wet and useless.as the airguns allways worked,pcp airguns have a very long
 and interesting history,in paralell with the developement of firearms,and in many instances were far
 supperior than the firearms of the day,but firearms were much cheaper to make in large quantites so won
 the day in the end.
 Modern pcp airguns are a recent resurgance and are without a doubt the most versitle airguns available
 today,Personally I dont understand why so many are against pcp airguns I get little pissed off at this
 attitude,that often surfaces in discussions on airguns,I get the impression some who use spring powered
 airguns feel they are supperiour to those who use pcp guns for some unknown reason just coz they use
 they use this type of airgun,why I have no idea but it is the impression I often get.
  cheers mike
 

Offline Dvlnme

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Re: pcp airguns as weapons of war
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2018, 11:11:34 AM »
You dead right bout the Scots Hugh,they produced soon the best engineers the world ever seem over the
 past few hundreds of years,people today got short memorys .
 I nteresting the English would allow them to still mantain a private army,considering how many times over
 hundreds of years the English bassically tryed very hard to elliminate the Scotish as a people eh!!I guess
 they dont exactly feel threatened these days by a small Scotish army armed with flintock muskets and
 muzzle loading canons against modern weapons,The Scots actively supported the americans against the
 british most the blockade running ships were built in Scotland for the Americans,just to spite the English
 the same reason the Irish allowed German ships and subs to use Irish ports,dispite hateing the Nazis
 a case of my enemys enemy be a friend of mine eh!!The English were total barstards in their time to any
 one who in any way opposed them,just as the US is today.
 The french used a few 9 mm pcp airguns against the Nazi invaders during second world war i Paris,built
 by a bicycle maker I believe.
 cheers mike
 

Offline Vault

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Re: pcp airguns as weapons of war
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2018, 02:38:35 PM »
I remember seeing photos online of people in the Ukraine manning check points with springers back when that issue was going on between Ukraine and Russia.

I guess in war people will use anything they can to defend themselves from oppressors
I kill....

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Offline Ed.

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Re: pcp airguns as weapons of war
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2018, 02:43:10 PM »
There is a good example of a 58 cal ball reservoir air rifle at Auckland museum circa 1800s made in the UK.Sadly it is not currently on display along with many other fine collections now locked away from the pc world.The pneumatic air canes that british gentry carried in the same era were an intriguing weapon,some shooting a one inch calibre ball,and using animal horn for poppet valves.Oh to a gun smith back then.

Offline Dvlnme

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Re: pcp airguns as weapons of war
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2018, 04:46:28 PM »
Museum got huge collection of all sorts of guns here they very rarely on display these days in many such
 places coz they changed museums so much copying te parpa,that museums pretty boring places now coz
 more like a theme park than a museum our local museum has several thousand firearms I know coz I
 cataloged them some years back,most have never been seen by anyone but museum staff.pcp airguns
 have a history as long as flintlock firearms cept no one still uses flintlocks these days in the way we still
 using pcp airguns today,we live in the golden age of airguns today but unfortunatly we in nz now are not
 not allowed to own most them mow coz they look like firearms so most be too dangerous for us to own.
 cheers mike

Offline Novagun

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Re: pcp airguns as weapons of war
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2018, 06:53:27 PM »
Museums.
They do have a lot in their collections that is not on display. I have been to Te Papa to a private viewing of Maori artifacts that are not on public display. I think we had to pay $20.00 a head for a guided tour.
Worth every cent. Stuff you could see up close, pre european carvings done with stone implements. Tools, weapons.
I even very very gently touched Hone Hekes cloak. Amazing to me. The treaty flag I just looked at. Some of those old time Maori were very skilled artisans.
My point is that a club could organise a private viewing at a museum to see guns. Why not?