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Author Topic: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer  (Read 193 times)

Offline Hidayat

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The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« on: February 09, 2019, 07:15:57 PM »
I feel this is the last kill with this pistol 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 07:23:08 PM by Hidayat »
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Offline Novagun

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2019, 08:50:24 PM »
Ok Hidayat. Why the last kill? Are you selling it or putting it away?

i take it you mean there will be no more kills and not that this was the latest kill.

Offline Hidayat

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2019, 09:53:54 AM »
Hi Nova this pistol never for sale & i never thinking to sell it.

This is last kill with this pistol configuration.after 12 years milking cows my hand start feel funny,i cant hold the pistol steady like used to be,i'm planing to put stock so becoming carbine,maybe i'm getting old now.

I shot this stag from 107yards using shooting stick for resting my pistol,he run about 200yards from where i shot,i'm very nervous i tough just wounding him but then he stop wobbly and drop expired,i feel like the happiest man on the earth that day.But i feel like gay shooting pistol with shooting stick,pretty sure Wingman will call me gay too,i'm not gay i got wife & 3 kids.That's why i'm thinking to change this pistol in to carbine.

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Offline Dvlnme

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2019, 06:42:57 PM »
i been hunting and shooting handguns for allmost 40 years mate,nothing gay bout using a rest to steady
 and hold gun,i got arthritus in fingers of both hands from many years working outside in all weathers
 prob very simialler to you,thats never guna stop me using a handgun for any purpose and no reason should stop you either,that deer would been long shot even with an accurate 44 mag and i done my share off
 shooting 44 and other handguns,i would been proud pull that shot off as you did with a 44 mag revolver
 as relistically that shot was right at practical and ethical limit even for the magnum in fact i wouldnt have taken it without a very steady rest and scoped gun,you just need do as i have done pass up the longer
 shots and just get closer,think bout it the 44mag lot more powerful than your pistol yet you put bullet in
 right place mate and the gun did the job,thats a credit to you,not a valid reason to quit,some thing you have got very good at,hell lot shooters use shooting sticks with a rifle so no shame in using them with a
 handgun,there nothing macho bout taking only free hand shots with a handgun,truth is thats for idiots and the movies mate.
 cheers mike

Offline Novagun

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2019, 03:47:54 AM »
Well you got the whole picture Hidayat.
On the other side of the fence a stock on a pistol is an aid to accuracy and a fun novelty way of shooting.
The shoulder stock can be made so that is is easy to take off so you can use the pistol with or without.

Offline Pauly5

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2019, 07:43:10 AM »
Nicely done Hidayat. If you feel your not as steady free hand, just adapt. No shame in resting or putting on a stock.
Time and work pays it's toll on our bodies, so we need to alter the way we do things.

I wonder if the crosman carbine stocks will fit. Don't see why not, so could be an option.
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Offline Hidayat

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 06:05:19 PM »
Quote from: Dvlnme 
link=topic=2565.msg20976#msg20976 date=1549863777
i been hunting and shooting handguns for allmost 40 years mate,nothing gay bout using a rest to steady
 and hold gun,i got arthritus in fingers of both hands from many years working outside in all weathers
 prob very simialler to you,thats never guna stop me using a handgun for any purpose and no reason should stop you either,that deer would been long shot even with an accurate 44 mag and i done my share off
 shooting 44 and other handguns,i would been proud pull that shot off as you did with a 44 mag revolver
 as relistically that shot was right at practical and ethical limit even for the magnum in fact i wouldnt have taken it without a very steady rest and scoped gun,you just need do as i have done pass up the longer
 shots and just get closer,think bout it the 44mag lot more powerful than your pistol yet you put bullet in
 right place mate and the gun did the job,thats a credit to you,not a valid reason to quit,some thing you have got very good at,hell lot shooters use shooting sticks with a rifle so no shame in using them with a
 handgun,there nothing macho bout taking only free hand shots with a handgun,truth is thats for idiots and the movies mate.
 cheers mike

Thank you so much mike...really appreciate your comments & advice. I do want let go that stag but my freezer near empty.I done hundreds hour shooting that pistol,shooting milk jug 100+ yards no problem. That stag grazing in the middle of paddock & no hide anymore between me and stag. I laser it 107yards & pull the shot.
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Offline Hidayat

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 06:08:35 PM »
Well you got the whole picture Hidayat.
On the other side of the fence a stock on a pistol is an aid to accuracy and a fun novelty way of shooting.
The shoulder stock can be made so that is is easy to take off so you can use the pistol with or without.

Cheers Nova,I think i need change that title to "the latest kill"
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Offline Hidayat

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2019, 06:12:53 PM »
Nicely done Hidayat. If you feel your not as steady free hand, just adapt. No shame in resting or putting on a stock.
Time and work pays it's toll on our bodies, so we need to alter the way we do things.

I wonder if the crosman carbine stocks will fit. Don't see why not, so could be an option.

Cheers Pauly5,after reading mike comment I think will keep that pistol with those beautiful wooden grips   ;)
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Offline Dvlnme

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2019, 07:54:56 AM »
i have shoot several deer with muzzle loading 45/50 cal rifles using round balls in years gone by at approx
 100yds its allways the same with round balls,they rarely drop on the spot unless bone is hit and the ball
 flattens out and expandz causing more damage etc,a round ball not very heavy conpared to a bullet in
 same caliber and not ballistically a good projectile once distances get out a bit,wind affects round balls lot
 more than a heavier longer bullet as well i did lot testing loading round balls in 30 and 45 cal cartridge
 firearms looking for light but effective short range rabbit and possum loads to use in deer hunting rifles
 on deer hunting trips,never loaded the balls over 1000fps but they worked extremely well out to 100 yds
 even on goats if i put ball in right place,dont know what velocity your 45 pistol putting out but assume ball
 weighed approx 180 gr so even at 600fps its packing bit energy at muzzle,but like all round balls it would
 lose velocity fast so was quite amazed when you said distance you took shot at on how well it did its job,
 having shot several deer out to 100yds and further with hi powered 44/45 cal revolvers in years gone by
 with big heavy 300/310 gr lead bullets,they never dropped on the spot,these bullets always completely
 penertated the animal and did lot damage on way thru,the deer was dead just didnt know it yet eh!!
 a heart shot animal will allways run some distance with any gun ,but have to say i wouldve thought twice
 bout taking the same shot even with a 44mag unless had a really steady rest and a scoped gun,not a fan
 of dot sights for hunting past 25yds the dot gets too bit to be accurate so your scopes a good choice for
 hunting,be interested to know how round ball performed and how far it penetrated etc,if you concerned
 bout you ablity to take longer shots,just change you tactics and get bit closer,hand gun hunting is very
 much like bow hunting,closer is allways better no matter how powerful the gun,closer is allways better on
 larger game when comes to hand guns.
 done lot my handgun hunting using open sights simply coz i like the added challenge hunting with an
 open sighted handgun,but never take shots past 50/60 yds with open sights on larger animals,and
 believe me 50yds feels way too close to a big dangerous big Aussie buffalo and a big powerfull 44/45
 magnum revolver looks pretty small mate as have seen the bid buggas get up from big bore powerful
 rifles at times,but the excitment is pretty awsume when you fire that shot,so know how you felt when
 that deer went done,its something you wont forget eh!!i would been just as proud myself if had done the
 same with a 44 mag mate,dont you dare give up hunting with your pistol,we will all miss your posts if
 you did,there not many kiwis who have hunted with handguns of any sort so its a pretty exclusive club
 you now belong to and to have done so with an air pistol is even more exclusive.
 cheers mike

Offline Novagun

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2019, 12:01:54 AM »
So there you have it, Hidayat.

I will never belong to that exclusive club but I have two questions.

1. Does  shooting of round ball from either air pistol  or powder pistol or from round ball rifle give a consistant trajectory if the wind is not a factor.

2. What is the recoil like on a big calibre air pistol, 180gn ball. PCP of course.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 12:04:56 AM by Novagun »

Offline Dvlnme

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2019, 09:00:33 AM »
round balls should allways give a predicable trajectory if velocity is constant from shot to shot the same as
 any other type projectile does,being lighter that a normal bullet in same caliber they give higher velocitys
 so tend to shoot flatter ,but lose velocity faster than a heavier bullet due to their poor ballistic shape etc,
 so are better at shorter distances tho dont produce as much energy on target as the heavier bullets so are
 not as effective as bullets.thats the bassic jist of it but there little more to it than that,
 wind has bigger effect on low velocity round balls than doses on bullets allso eg! 180gr round ball at 2000
 fps out muzzle loader is a very diffent thing to 180gr round ball at 650fps out of a pcp pistol,putting that
 into true context a 455 webley cartridge drives a 260 gr round nosed lead bullet at 650fps and is one the
 lowest powered service cartridges ever used,i wouldnt even consider using a 455 revolver to hunt deer or
 shot one unless i was standing on it,the 45 cal pcp pistol used with 180gr lead ball isnt even close to being
 in same power class as the 455 webely so there would be a certain amount of luck involved in killing a
 deer with either that has to be taken into account here,and lot of skill needed to do so allso and the credit
 for that skill has to go to the shooter for sure,fact is i and others i know have shoot several deer with 22
 rinfires over the years at close range ,but dosnt make the 22 rimfire as suitable choice to hunting deer
 with eh!!there was at lest one african elephant that was killed with one shot in brain fron above with a
 22 rimfire revolver many years ago by two scientists the elephant had force to climb a tree and was
 proceeding to demolish the tree,this is a verifiable incident that did take place,but no one in their right
 mind would go hunting elephants with a 22 rimfire handgun eh!!and expect to survive either,it all comes
 down to perfect bullet placement and the balls n skill of the man behind the gun ,its really all bout fully
 understanding you gun and your capablitys in using it.in days gone by and forgotten by most now guns
 were no where near as accurate or powerfull as those today and did the job perfectly well for those using
 them,hunting with big bore pcp airguns today is very simialler to hunting with black powder guns in the
 17/1800s,they are far more efective than they may seem on paper.
 cheers mike

Offline Novagun

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2019, 09:57:14 AM »
Thank you for that information.

Offline Dvlnme

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2019, 11:23:05 AM »
i have brought up the subject of foot pounds of energy and how many seem to believe it is a true indictation
 of a guns power,when in fact it very little to do with how any gun or projectile actually works on meat and
 bone in a hunting situation,in fact FPE has no relevence to how any combination of velocity and projectile
 weight performs at all, except on a steel plate,FPE is the amount of energy it takes to move that steel
 plate a known measured distance realitive to the known weight of that plate hanging on a ballistic
 pendulum,this was an early form of chronograph,as once the amount of energy required to doso was known
 the velocity of the projectile could then be calculated,this is all done today by electronic chronos,as FPE only
 takes into account projectile weight and velocity,but dosnt take into account bore size the material the projectile is made off and how that projectile will perform on contact with flesh and bone the amount of energy it takes to move a steel plate on a pendulum is totally irrellevent,so putting this fact into its true
 context means that lets say in 30 cal a 60gr round ball/60 lead bullet and 60 pellet at the same 650 fps
 all have the same 56 fpe but each projectile will behave and perform on soft target very differently,the
 fragile pellet will proberly deform a little proberly not exit the target and dump more of its 56 fpe into the
 target then the bullet or ball both of which will proberly pass clean thru the target and expend that 56 fpe on the ground behind the target,ballistically the bullet on paper will be the best projectile but the pellet
 and will hold its velocity better than either ball or pellet the pellet due to its shape will lose velocity the
 fastest,comparing a 22 fpe 177 and 22fpe 22 rifles the 177 firing a 10.34gr pellet the 22 firing a 16gr
 pellet,both are equal on paper the 177 will likely shoot much flatter due having the higher velocity than the 22,but the 22 will be the better performer for hunting due to its larger diameter and heavier pellet,i
 know from my own experience those little 177 110.34gr pellets will out penertrate the larger 22 pellets
 and wastes much of its energy on ground behind the target,while the larger 22 pellet will rarely exit the
 target dumping all or most its 22fpe into the target and making bigger hole and causing more damage,
 therefore the 22 is the better choice for hunting yet both on paper are equal in fpe but one is more effective than the other,tho both will do the job,my point is that its not the amount of fpe on paper that really matters it really all comes done to how any projectile behaves on target and how much of that energy it can then dump into the target and how much traumatic damage it then does to that target as how effective it will be for hunting,the other side of this is that a rather small caliber very hi velocity
 projectile can cause a lot of damage allso due to the hydro scopic damage caused by the hi velocity
 projectle passing often completely thru the target or by tumbling and deformind inside the target,this is
 the concept behind modern militery cartridges,the intention is to cause devastating but not neccessily
 fatal wounds which is very different to hunting etc.it really all comes down to terminal ballistics once a
 projectile has entered the target as how effective it will be or what those effects will be,for hunting of any
 type the goal is to have the projectile to if possible remain in the target and dump all its energy into the
 target causing as much trauma as possible to totally disable the target and kill as fast as possible .
 it dosnt matter if the target is a rat or a deer this is the result that should be wanted.
 cheers mike

Offline Hidayat

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Re: The last kill with 45cal cattle slayer
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2019, 06:41:34 PM »
Cheers mike for that awesome information,that stag got double lung holes,the 143gr ball fly at 700fps stopped by stag shoulder blade.

For Novagun the recoil this pistol similar to 9mm handgun some people said.
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