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Author Topic: Importing airguns  (Read 9749 times)

Offline Stephen H aka Rawhide

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Importing airguns
« on: July 07, 2013, 06:38:00 PM »
I don't know how much it is known out there but very soon all airguns importers and distributors will have to keep record of all air guns sold and importers will have to have an importer's license with all importated gund needing police clearance
If you think this is only pcp's then sorry you are wrong

Vault

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2013, 10:46:45 AM »
Thanks Rawhide,

Do you know if there will be any restrictions on either Maccari or Vortek springs, tune kits ?


Offline Wingman

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2013, 11:16:19 AM »
No because as a dealer I can sort through the bullshit for you and can still supply them cheaper than you can import them yourself.. Its my hobby not my job ;)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 04:54:13 PM by Wingman »

Offline scout

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2013, 11:24:44 AM »
Wingman -  AKA BULLSHIT FILTER    Works for me   8)

greyskull

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2013, 01:16:17 PM »
I don't know how much it is known out there but very soon all airguns importers and distributors will have to keep record of all air guns sold and importers will have to have an importer's license with all importated gund needing police clearance
If you think this is only pcp's then sorry you are wrong

Yeah I think its worth a read of the new legislation. All air rifles and air pistols will now have to be import permited, and "sufficiently good reason" shown before Police will use their discretion to approve. The sticking point seems to be the Police level of discretion applied, and who gets approval vs who does not.

I believe established Firearms Dealers will be the winners, and private importers will be the losers. Makes no bones to me personally as I would get stuff through a dealer rather than import privately anyway.

Pretty sure these conditions were engineered in close consult with the Firearms Advisory Council, made up of various Registered Dealers and Colfo etc etc.

Whatever.  Just roll with it I reckon. As long as Agents still invest the bucks up front bring in what we need then only marginally worse off IMHO. If Dealers just list available items on their website, don't actually hold any stock and then you have to wait for it to come into the Country "subject to availability" then it is a far worse situation.

As long as I can still handle and test any prospective equipment before purchase I will be happy, and if not then I will do without or improvise by making/adapting myself.

Offline Wingman

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2013, 04:52:24 PM »
Partially true Greyskull, the legislation has been put in place with police drive to combat mostly the importation of imitation firearms/airsoft guns that look like real pistols and assault rifles etc which are the reason for 99% of AOS call outs and all to easy to pass off as a real firearm in armed robberies etc.
When I questioned my AO regarding items I was importing he said there is no issue at all and the paperwork is just a formality for the NZ customs. Lets only hope it stays this way for some time yet.

Im sure there will be grey areas but most will come down to the relationship between your dealer and his/her arms officer as to what can and cant be imported. Parts will not be a problem but some rifles and pistols will be if you cant prove their designation "justified".

As for dealers having stock or ordering for you, I would go either way, as long as the price was good.
I do however have issues with dealers that import from factories/wholesalers and jack the price far more that what it would be if you imported the item yourself from a retailer abroad, especially online dealers that have next to no overheads like a shop or warehouse etc..
The world is a small place now and most items can be acquired by air freight within 5 working days which I have never had any issue waiting.
I buy unseen/un-handled  products all the time through trademe or the net, imported from overseas but I'm rarely disappointed. It comes down to the research you do on a product before you commit in many cases.

Unfortunately the new policy does put the decision making in a number of multi opinionated arms officers hands so Im sure the "Squeeze" for tighter importation control will be inevitable. 
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 05:25:45 PM by Wingman »

Vault

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2013, 04:57:34 PM »
As long as we can get Edgun pellets I'll be happy and I don't mind waiting for them either :)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 06:23:52 PM by Vault »

Offline Coil

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2013, 03:22:50 PM »
No because as a dealer I can sort through the bullshit for you and can still supply them cheaper than you can import them yourself.. Its my hobby not my job ;)

How much would the full power kits, for a HW97K, sent to Gisborne cost. Can you also get UK stuff like Welsh Willy, V-Mach and MTC Optics

Offline Akzle

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2013, 05:20:46 PM »
im still of the belief that noone should ever voluntarily accept an infringement against/ reduction of their rights at the whim of politicians and their gang enforcers.

But hey. Im like that.

Offline NZSteyr

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2013, 05:43:43 PM »
 +1 mate, I'm with you...

Offline Wingman

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2013, 06:19:14 PM »
I can get most things but need to sign up as an agent to get good prices and buy in bulk, the market here is not stable enough to buy too much in bulk so many items will be one offs which will lift the price a little. I Have been looking at the MTM range of scopes and they want an agent here, getting scopes out of Europe is a long winded mission with a paper trail a mile long.. most company's wont go through all that for the export of one or two scopes.
HW parts are no probs, there is a guy in Auckland stocking them and plenty of after market stuff around.

Offline Novagun

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2013, 07:05:14 PM »
The important change for airgunners will be the importing  air pistols.

•   A person must not, otherwise than pursuant to a permit issued to the person by a member of the Police, bring or cause to be brought or sent into New Zealand—
•   “(a) a firearm, pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, starting pistol, restricted airgun, or restricted weapon; or
•   “(b) any part of a firearm, pistol, military style semi-automatic firearm, starting pistol, or restricted weapon.”
•   
•   NOTE: the wording does place any restriction on importing parts for a restricted airgun and these happen to be air pistols and PCPs. They are restricted airguns – not restricted weapons. There is no restriction on importing parts for ordinary air rifles so Macari kits et al will not be affected. ( Wingman breath easy you may not be inundated with requests but nice to know the service is available.)


•   restricted airgun means an airgun that,—
•   “(a) without any of the attachments with which it is customarily used, has the appearance of being a pistol, a restricted weapon, or a military style semi-automatic firearm; or
•   “(b) with some or all of the attachments with which it is customarily used, has the appearance of being a pistol, a restricted weapon, or a military style semi-automatic firearm; or
•   “(c) is designed for use in airsoft or paintball sports and,—
•   “(i) without any of the attachments with which it is customarily used, has the appearance of being a firearm capable of full automatic fire; or
•   “(ii) with some or all of the attachments with which it is customarily used, has the appearance of being a firearm capable of full automatic fire.
•   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note; Only certain certain airsoft or paintball guns are restricted if they look like machine guns.
 Common air pistols all look like real pistols so they are restricted and will need an import permit as will PCPs because they are restricted by Order in Council. You will still be able to walk into a shop and buy an air pistol and have one at home, just like now. If an air pistol looked like toy fire engine or more realistically like a battery drill then you would not need a permit to import it.

The enthusiasts common air rifles such as Weihrauch, Diana, Cometa, Hatsan and so on will not need a permit to import because they look like sporting rifles and are not restricted airguns.

Another interesting point is that the compact Edgun bull pup is less than 762 mms long so is a pistol by definition but it does not look like a pistol. It is not a restricted airgun under the PCP Order in Council because my recollection is that it excluded pistols and neither is it a restricted airgun under the Firearms Amendment Act 2012 because it does not look like a pistol. It looks like a short PCP bull pup that is a pistol by definition. So you could import one without a permit  if you wanted to.
A Ranchero PCP pistol would be a restricted airgun because it does look like a pistol.
It may not be as deadly as a short Edgun or as accurate or they both may be equal.

((( THE ABOVE PARAGRAPH IS NOT CORRECT SEE DEFINITION OF PISTOL - RELATES TO FIREARMS>>>>
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Maybe not see argument hereafter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Life will go on much the same and for most of us air gunning will go on just the same unless you want an airgun that looks like a submachine gun and what would you want that for. (Bank robberies maybe)

And yes; Akzle is like that and long may he be so.

I had better check up and see if something has changed regarding PCP pistols.

 Akzle, I think the big hurdle will be the Customs Officers and Arms Officers who will get it wrong.

 

« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 06:06:36 AM by Novagun »

Offline Wingman

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2013, 07:31:09 PM »

Another interesting point is that the compact Edgun bull pup is less than 762mms long so is a pistol by definition but it does not look like a pistol. It is not a restricted airgun under the PCP Order in Council because my recollection is that it excluded pistols and neither is it a restricted airgun under the Firearms Amendment Act 2012 because it does not look like a pistol. It looks like a short PCP bull pup that is a pistol by definition. So you could import one without a permit  if you wanted to.

Incorrect.. you do need a import permit to import one and they are not defined as a pistol.
I went through this all in depth with my AO and the Wellington boys when setting up as a dealer, there is also a section in the pistol definition that states that a pistol is designed to be fired with one hand. The bullpup is not. It is clearly a short PCP rifle like many others available in nz such as the FX verminator, Crosman pistols with stocks and several BSA carbines that all fall into the under 762mm but are on the NZ register as PCP rifles not pistols.
The Edgun is on the NZ import registration as a PCP Rifle and will require an Import permit and a FAL to own.
This is not a grey area, If you dont have an FAL you cant buy a Matador in NZ.
The Veles pistol however I can sell to anyone over the age of 18, just dont put a shoulder stock on it or you will be breaking the law. Go figure.


Offline Novagun

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2013, 07:44:15 PM »
Yes Wingman correct.

pistol means any firearm that is designed or adapted to be held and fired with 1 hand; and includes any firearm that is less than 762 millimetres in length.

The definition of pistol refers to a firearm, not an airgun. I overlooked that, so the short bull pup is not a pistol.

Offline Novagun

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Re: Importing airguns
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2013, 06:43:57 AM »
PCP PISTOL.
Second Thoughts.
The definition of a pistol is a Firearm that is designed to be held and fired with one hand. It also includes any firearm less than 762 mms long. That is an absolute criteria that is not qualified and would include any firearm with or without a stock and which may by design or necessity be fired with two hands even though it is less than 762mms.

As air pistols and firearms type pistols are included in the same act the firearms definition would be highly persuasive if not binding regarding air pistols.
Put a stock on a Ranchero or a Glock and keep it under 762mms and it is still a pistol. The Arms Act says nothing about stock or shouldering that will change the guns' category
.
Because an air pistol is not specifically defined in the Arms Act one would turn to the dictionary definition of a pistol. The New Zealand Oxford English Dictionary defines a pistol as a small hand held firearm or anything of similar shape.  New Zealand English is the language we speak so I favour this definition.
The English Oxford Dictionary defines a pistol as a small firearm –usually-- with a curved butt, held and fired by one hand. Because of the word usually it seems to not exclude something that is small but held in two hands.
Air pistol is not defined in either the Arms Act or the two dictionaries. The best definition we have is the definition of pistol in the Arms Act.

A rifle is defined in the NZ dictionary as a gun with a long rifled barrel, especially one fired from shoulder level. The short pcp does not have a long barrel so the primary clause fails: the secondary clause qualifies the primary but not exclusively, so a rifle has a long barrel. The Oxford English dictionary definition of a rifle is less precise but definitely refers to long barrelled guns and long overall length.

Air pistol may have been defined by case law at some time but I do not have access to that decision. Maybe it remains to be decided but you can be assured that  I will not be putting the matter to the test. It is however an arguable point, the crux of which seems to be 762mms in length.
What is and is not a pistol seems to have been settled by the Police and perhaps we should accept that.

I don’t  want any pcp  so the point is academic and has served to entertain me until the DomPost is delivered.

Addendum. The best advice is that offered by the Police as they administer the Arms Act and any challenge to their position could prove to be mightily inconvenient not to mention expensive.   

« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 10:50:15 AM by Novagun »