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Author Topic: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup  (Read 76782 times)

Offline 661084

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #60 on: February 22, 2014, 03:59:49 PM »
I am a PCP enthusiasts, because in China are not allowed to have guns, so all my guns can be virtual in my computer, I design has more than ten kinds of PCP, p12 is just one of those, there are a lot of design can only be lying in my computer, I also edgun admirers, to express some of his design idea, of course I will also make some about the structure of his different transformation of the individual, is, of course, only the transformation in the computer

Offline 661084

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2014, 04:11:57 PM »
Did not send pictures, I do not know such right

Offline 661084

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2014, 04:14:41 PM »
I have a design

Offline Wingman

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2014, 04:33:27 PM »
Welcome, Its nice to have you here.
Thank you for sharing this design with the world,
Thank you to both you and Annie for listening and improving your product, I know it will be a successful one once all the small engineering issues have been corrected. Im sure SPA will have this gun fixed and available very soon.

它很高兴有你在这里。
感谢您与世界分享这个设计,
谢谢你和安妮都为聆听和改善你的产品,我知道这将是一次成功的一次,所有的小工程问题已得到纠正。我敢肯定,SPA都会有这种枪固定和可很快。



Offline Wingman

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2014, 09:51:26 PM »
For the USA customers I am happy to announce that Mrod Air is your new official P12 representative.
Get in fast and place your order to secure a P12 from the first shipment.

http://mrodair.com/p-12_bullpup

follow this link to get the "Wingman special" for a limited time, free shipping and $50 off your purchase price!

http://mrodair.com/p-12_bullpup

http://mrodair.com/how_to_order_the_new_p-12


Check out the P12 accessories that Mrod Air will be offering too:

http://mrodair.com/p-12_bullpup_parts_and_accessories


« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 09:54:43 PM by Wingman »

Offline Mrodair

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #65 on: February 28, 2014, 01:22:02 PM »
Michael Esch, from Mrodair here.

New to this forum.

We have been flat out, with the preparations for the arrival of the new P-12 bullpup, here in the US.

Anxiously awaiting their arrival, and preparing a few upgrades.

The wingman, has been invaluable, to us here at mrodair.

Sales of the P-12 here in the US are going well, and we are very proud, to be a part of this
fantastic new bullpup air gun.

The design, attention to detail, and quality materials used are evident and with the new upgrades, are a testament to Snowpeaks commitment to producing one of the finest quality high end air rifles available.

We are working to update our website, with the latest news on the P-12, and are just a few short days away from having much more information available.

Thanks wingman we are in your debt.


Offline Wingman

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2014, 11:20:49 PM »
Right lets keep this thread rolling..

This review seems to have reached far and wide and got the attention of many people..
A while ago while testing the CZ Altaros reg in the P12, I was contacted by Huma-Air in Holland who makes pcp regulators for several brands.
You may know them as the Huma regulator. The Huma regulators were developed by a couple of guys in the Netherlands, one is called Huub and and the other is called Marc, so the regulators have been called Hu(ub)Ma(rc) regulators. They have developed a number of interesting parts and regulators for a range of rifles. I had never used a Huma reg before but after a quick scout around the forums and google there seems to be loads of happy users and the product looks good.

Well after a few emails back and forth with Huub discussing measurements, pressures, velocities, plenum volumes etc he has come back to me with a prototype regulator specially designed as a drop in unit for the P12 rifles..
The shiny new prototype turned up in the post today for me to test.









It is beautifully made and is exactly to the spec I asked for that I had previously fine tuned my Altaros reg and plenum to (reg spacer volume)

It is a a very small unit that threads to the plenum and breathes to the environment by removing the rear valve body O ring  like the Altaros reg, so no drilling of the Titanium cylinder is necessary. I love this feature.

Alog side my modified Altaros reg you can see the Huma reg is very short and looks very much like the Crickets reg both internally and externally.
Already I see an advantage of the Huma reg over the Altaros reg and that is the precious volume of air it takes up in the P12s cylinder. Although the plenum looks longer on the Huma reg it has actually been made with the same volume as the one I made for the Altaros reg as you can see once it is screwed together.










The Altaros reg is much longer due to the internal seal and piston design also the smaller diameter Bellville washer stack.



Just to recap on what I did when tuning my .22 P12 for the Altaros reg, I made and fitted a larger transfer tube to make the most of the shorter burst of lower pressure regulated air, I also fitted a heavier hammer spring and lighter valve return spring to alter valve dwell time and shot consistency to make the most of the regs 130 bar setting.








I get 45 regulated shots with 18.13gr JSBs at 900fps with the Altaros reg but I also fill my gun to 220bar as once its regulated there is no chance of valve lock up from pressures over 200bar like you would get in its unregulated state..

To test this reg as a drop in unit I first decided to put my .22 P12 back to how it comes directly from the factory in regards to hammer/valve springs and transfer ports. This will represent the same results you can expect if you were to fit the Huma reg to a factory tuned and unmodified P12. I had Huub preset the Prototype reg to 2000PSI (138bar) as I was unsure on what pressure would be needed with the factory transfer port and hammer spring fitted to push the 18.13gr JSB to 900fps.

So after removing the Altaros Reg and fitting all the factory parts back in I put a little silicone grease on the new prototype Huma reg and fitted it to the cylinder.



After reassembling the P12 I filled it with air and checked for leaks. All good in that respect so a quick few shots over the chrony to set the hammer spring to this guns preferred 900fps I refilled to 200 bar ( the factories recommended fill pressure) and shot a full string.
Now keep in mind this is a new reg that will “run in” and eventually be a little more consistent.

200Bar = 900 913 897 902 900 906 897 904 900 900 897 916 896 906 894 911 911 901 900 898 900 900 892 906 910 896 904 899 895 897 902 901 895 900 893 880 893 873 894 901 894 887 887 889 887 125bar 884 880 885 878 870

Now although not a bad shot string, there was the odd small velocity spike and drop and the last 10 shots show that the reg is set a little too high at 138bar which I knew as the hammer spring was backed right off even with the smaller factory transfer port. The hammer spring was adjustable from approx 900 to 955fps. There was 45 shots on the reg but it fell off early at 125bar and this already shows more available cylinder volume as I only got 45 shots from the CZ Altaros Reg but that was shot between 220bar to 118 bar!
I is clear I will have to reduce the reg pressure to 130-132 bar to get the desired velocity of 900fps with the hammer spring set at a mid setting.

Just for my own interest I left the hammer spring set where it was and swapped the factory smaller transfer port with my custom high flow one to give you a better Idea of whats going on inside.
The resulting shot string was as follows:

200bar = 912 915 908 914 909 914 909 910 908 911 913 913 912 917 913 909 909 910 911 915 916 912 909 906 911 915 908 916 909 911 912 910 911 907 895 894 894 894 125bar 878 881 874

So with 38 shots before dropping off the reg at 125 bar the spread has improved a little and the larger transfer port has increased the velocity 10-15fps at the same hammer setting. The hammer spring can now be set from approx 910fps to 965 fps.
So the larger diameter transfer port gives better consistency and is a great mod if you are fitting a reg to your P12 but as you see from the strings the reg needs to be wound down to get approx 890 to 925 fps of adjustment on the hammer spring.
The way it is running now the hammer spring is regulating the regulated air so it will never be consistent or economical.

In the next couple of days I will remove the prototype reg and reduce the pressure to 130 bar and run some more strings over the chrony.

With the factory set P12 and the addition of a drop in Huma reg and larger transfer port I hope to get about 55-60 very consistent shots at 900fps av with the 18.13gr JSBs between 220 and 118bar. I will then I will relay the regulator pre-set pressure information to Huub so he can mass produce these regs for all you die hard P12 fans..

I have given Huub Mrod Air’s contact details so the American customers will be able to purchase one of these drop in P12 Huma regs from Mike.
European customers can contact Huub directly and Ill edit this post with his details once I get the ok from him.
I believe Mike at Mrod Air is also manufacturing the larger transfer ports too if you don’t want to drill out your factory one.

Stay “tuned” for my next tuning session as I get this lovely piece of Dutch engineering to cooperate with my needs..
As time permits I will make some more vids on the P12 in regards to tuning and fitting the reg etc.

I also need to change the scope so I can fit the scope camera and show you some mind blowing 200 yard accuracy..
Unfortunately my scope cams don’t fit on the current setup so I missed out on sharing with you some amazing long lange kill shots on some very small targets.. more to come..

In the meantime here is some light reading for all you newbies that keep emailing me asking what a regulator does and why I fitted it to the P12..

What is a regulator?
A regulator is a device that regulates the pressure between the air cylinder/bottle and the firing valve. It allows air to to flow through to the action until it reaches a pre-set pressure and then it shuts off the air until a shot is fired, creating a constant pressure at the firing valve. When the rifle is fired this pressure drops then the regulator opens to allow the air to flow through to the firing valve again until it reaches the pre-set pressure. By fitting a regulator you eliminate the power curve and the hunt for the sweet spot that is common with most unregulated rifles.

Where does the regulator get fitted?
It is fitted in between the air reservoir/cylinder and the firing valve. The regulator has been designed as a drop in unit, this means that the P12 does not need to be modified when fitting the regulator, so less chance of leaks etc. It also means that it is possible to put the rifle back to standard without having to replace a number of expensive parts.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 11:57:54 PM by Wingman »

Offline GrahamA

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #67 on: March 29, 2014, 10:25:00 PM »
Awesome post, thanks Wingman.   :)
GrahamA
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Offline Heinekevin

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #68 on: March 30, 2014, 09:11:31 AM »
How much for a tuned .22

Offline Wingman

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #69 on: March 30, 2014, 09:27:35 AM »
Details in the dealers section

Offline Wingman

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #70 on: March 30, 2014, 06:25:31 PM »
Well after a very lengthy and thorough tuning session I have to say that I am a big fan of the Huma P12 prototype regulator.
I have put 400 pellets through the .22 in the last 2 days while fine tuning this reg and I am very happy with the results.

I started buy just lowering the reg pressure to 130 bar and tried to adjust the hammer spring to get the desired 900fps with the 18gr pellets.. I found out very quickly that this was not going to happen.



At 130 bar and the HST maxed out I could only get 870 ish fps which was the same with my Alataros reg.. this was remedied by fitting a lighter valve spring and a heavier hammer spring to lift the velocity. However this also made the P12 noticeably louder with the added impact noise of the hammer..

To combat this I have done it a little different with the Huma reg tune... I have kept the factory hammer spring and gone to an even lighter poppet valve return spring to lengthen the valve dwell time and make the most of the 130bar of regulated air in the plenum to get the 900fps.



The factory fitted valve spring (the black one) is a very solid little unit which works fine in its unregulated state as the higher pressure (up to 200 Bar) in the cylinder can blast through even with the smaller transfer port and easily push an 18gr pellet to 900fps but with only a small plenum with 130 bar of regulated air available the heavy spring shut the valve before letting enough air through..

So after a few tests with different springs and reg settings I have locked it up with a result I am very happy with.
The factory hammer spring is wound in about 2/3 of the way and the reg still set to 130 bar with a fill pressure of 230 bar this was my final string:

900 905 900 902 900 899 901 906 904 904 903 901 904 903 905 900 902 904 902 903 904 905 900 904 903 904 905 905 905 905 902 904 905 904 900 905 902 902 900 902 900 901 905 903 905 904 905 905 900 903 904 901 899 120 bar 893 889 888 885 878

Thats 55 shots at an average of 33ftlbs.. Very happy with that! :8:
With a consistent shot string like that and an increased shot count I would defiantly recommended the Huma regulators to anyone wanting to regulate their P12.
Something else I like about these regs is the capabilities for fine tuning, not only the very fine threads on the main pressure screw but there is also a 3mm grub screw set down inside the inlet port which allows for the fine adjustment of  air flow into the regulator which allows the regulator to fill faster or slower before shutting of for a better chance of accurate regulator function.



Slowing down the air speed in this manner gives the reg more time to regulate resulting in a very consistent pellet velocity with very minimal spread.
Some regulators have such a large inlet port that the reg opens early and the air rushes in to the plenum even while the poppet valve is still open wasting more air and also causes a regulator "bounce" which can shut a reg before it is up to the full set pressure then bounce it off the seat letting another small burst of air in often over pressurising it, this normally happens while the Cylinder pressure is still high but reduces as the air pressure in the cylinder drops.
This is the number one cause of a reg showing a small bell curve like an unregulated rifle that is very hard to iron out, most people end up reducing hammer spring tension and lifting the reg pressure but the result often means more noise and bad efficiency/consistency.
 This port size can be the difference of a consistent efficient reg and a absolute dog of a reg.. Huub and Marc have given us the best possible solution to tune the reg for a pressure range you intend to use it within.
The reg I also very easy to service and contains just a couple of O rings that are easy to get too.
Well done guys, another great accessory for the P12!
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 07:19:02 PM by Wingman »

Offline Pauly5

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #71 on: March 30, 2014, 07:15:24 PM »
Great stuff again wingman. Helps us appreciate the relationship of ports, springs regs etc. would it be fair to say that if you take the time to adjust and test certain setups one should be able to get the ideal setup with most pcps and a regulator?
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Offline Wingman

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #72 on: March 30, 2014, 07:34:18 PM »
Would it be fair to say that if you take the time to adjust and test certain setups one should be able to get the ideal setup with most pcps and a regulator?

It would be fair to say that yes.. Like anything mechanical if you can understand how it works and translate what the data is telling you then you can alter it to get the best from it.

Offline Wingman

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #73 on: April 21, 2014, 02:31:34 PM »
The first of the new P12s hit USA


Offline Wingman

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Re: Attack of the Clones - The all new P12 Bullpup
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2014, 08:03:33 PM »